Your first indie game is probably still too big.

In this episode of The Summoning Hour, host Joe Belousek sits down with Noatak Post and Riley Sikes of Gllama Games, the two-person team behind Upstream. What began with a reused salmon sprite from a fishing-themed game jam became a commercial two-button physics platformer on Steam.

Noatak and Riley explain how they found the game's core, divided responsibilities, handled Steamworks, and used player feedback to rebuild a controller they once thought was finished. They also discuss why completing a game can be harder than endlessly improving it, and how a community poll helped resolve one of their design disagreements.

The conversation also introduces Gllama Games' next project, Minds of Mana. The team explains why playtesters felt a Minesweeper game and a roguelike fighting for the same identity, why they removed systems rather than adding more, and how the lessons from shipping Upstream are shaping the second game.

IN THIS EPISODE

- Turning a fishing-game-jam sprite into a commercial Steam game

- Building satisfying movement around only two buttons

- The playtest that led to a complete controller rewrite

- Steamworks, Godot, localization, and two-person role division

- Using community feedback without surrendering creative ownership

- Why finishing something small can teach more than planning something enormous

- The advantages of finding a collaborator

ABOUT GLLAMA GAMES

Noatak Post and Riley Sikes are longtime friends and the two-person team behind Gllama Games. They developed and published Upstream and are currently working on Minds of Mana.

PLAY UPSTREAM

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3245890/Upstream/

ON SALE FOR A LIMITED TIME!

FOLLOW GLLAMA GAMES

Website: https://gllamagames.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@GllamaGames

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/gllama.games

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gllamagames

Discord: https://discord.com/invite/U9TVUuEWQA

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION

The Summoning Hour Discord: https://discord.gg/EAFcfV6YYU

Joe: https://linktr.ee/warlockrakaul

GAME REFERENCED

Dragonsweeper by Daniel Benmergui: https://danielben.itch.io/dragonsweeper

CHAPTERS

00:00 Calling a Game Done Is the Hardest Part

00:16 Meet Noatak, Riley, and Gllama Games

02:43 The Game-Jam Salmon That Became Upstream

06:07 The Playtest That Rewrote the Controller

09:15 Becoming a Real Shipping Team

11:31 Designing a Game Around Two Buttons

15:12 Letting Players Settle a Design Disagreement

18:46 Revealing Minds of Mana

20:38 When Two Game Ideas Fight Each Other

32:02 Leaderboards and Accidental Speedrunning

35:25 What Kind of Studio Gllama Wants to Be

41:21 Make Something - Then Finish It

42:49 Why Finding a Collaborator Changes Everything